User talk:Bef3481

Welcome!

Hello, Bef3481! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 23:58, 26 June 2014 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	For your handling of our Criminal Minds dispute, I do believe you have earned this. Davejohnsan (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Criminal Minds season 10 sources

I was just wondering where your sources for the episode titles and names of the writer and director of the episodes are. I see you edit the Criminal Minds (season 10) page, and you claim to know the information from the source, but can you please edit up the sources too or else you just putting unconfirmed information on the page. So please add the source where you found the information up in the episode section.

@Twotimer17: Hello, fellow Wikipedia user. I appreciate your concern for the validity of the Criminal Minds (season 10) page. I always make sure that my information is accurate, but I am a fairly new user and I am in the process of trying to learn how to properly reference, source, and cite the sources of my information. I am an avid fan of this show, and my goal is to help keep fellow Criminal Minds fans informed. The information I've entered mainly comes directly from the Twitter pages of either the director or the writer of the episode, wherein they have posted images of the actual script of the episode, so that is how I've learned of the titles of these impending episodes as well as their respective writers and directors. My other main sources, which had this information posted before I ever made the edits, are the websites http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Season_Ten and http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.ca .

I will certainly give credit where it is due, which is why I'm currently learning how to properly make citations and references on Wikipedia. As the information has been posted for days and none of the administrators have taken it down, they must've somehow confirmed its accuracy. But thank you for making me aware of the fact that I have not listed any sources, as it hadn't been brought to my attention. I encourage you to check those websites as well as Larry Teng's Twitter account if you need confirmation, however it shouldn't be long before I can properly cite this information. I'm sure that other Criminal Minds fans who are as passionate about the show as I am appreciate my initiative to share this information. Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention. - Brendan Bef3481 (talk) 04:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

@Bef3481: I understand, and hope you will learn how to make citations and references on Wikipedia. But one thing you must learn, is that those sources you use are not reliable. Wikia is not a reliable source for material to be put on a Wikipedia page, remember that. As the regard of this website: http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.ca , if you are going to use this as a source , than you have to go to the original source rather than the blogspot which is just a website where the information is collected but not its origin source. I had to delete both the fifth and the sixth episode from Criminal Minds (season 10) episode section because I couldn't find any sources that confirmed the information. So remember that if you are going to put anything on a Wikipedia page, it has to be with sources or else it is just unconfirmed information.

@Twotimer17: Hey buddy, I do believe you deserve an apology; I'm sorry I attacked you personally. You didn't deserve that. It was very out of character for me to do that, ...I was having a bad day, and I misjudged you. Since I got a lot of people who tried to edit-war with me (not that that's what you're doing) when I was making the season 9 page, I assumed that's what you were doing, and that's why I became so emotionally involved and made it personal. Not the right thing to do. I now understand that we're both working toward the same goal: to better contribute accurate information to Wikipedia. I put up almost all of the info on the season 9 page in the episodes section! Even though I was very harsh with you, you took it very well. I appreciate and respect that. Even after I attacked you personally, you still told me you hope that I learn how to properly source. I greatly appreciate that. Now while I do not believe you created the season 10 page, unless you did so under a different screen name, that's not important. Let's agree to disagree. I think you have a lot to contribute to Wikipedia, and I apologize for what I said. Thank you very much for the help, prompting me to learn how to source. You have a nice day! :) Bef3481 (talk) 20:05, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

@Twotimer17: Hello again. :) Listen, I really appreciate your contributions to the Criminal Minds (season 10) page; you've helped me greatly to learn to to make citations and provide sources for information. I just feel on your last edit, you were almost trying to talk to me through the edit summary lol almost using it as a medium through which to correct me. I have no problem with that, however; your correction was quite helpful. I'm guessing you can see that I'm getting much better at learning how to reference, but I still have a long way to go; since you know what you're doing, (I feel bad that you had to learn the hard way; that must've sucked) please feel free to talk to me on here, rather than saying it through the edit summary. I already told you I retract all the negative things I said to you; I respect you. So if I've made a reference, correctly, and it still needs to be further specified, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could just tell me what I did wrong, (or didn't do) and I can make the necessary corrections myself. :) That's how I learn. You're gonna do what you want to do, regardless, and after the way I attacked you I understand if you feel that you don't owe me any favours, by any means... But it would be appreciated!

Thanks for helping me to keep the next fellow avid Criminal Minds fan properly informed, through this amazing medium known as Wikipedia! ;) Yours Sincerely, - Brendan F. Bef3481 (talk) 18:22, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Ratings for Criminal Minds

Hi. I noticed that on the Criminal Minds season 10 page, you started to begin an an edit war with another user about the ratings for the episode "Fate". As you argued that the rating you edited was the final rating, I have to tell you that those ratings was only the preliminary ratings. The final ratings is published a few hours after the first ratings are published. So the ratings that are the correct ones are at the article were at the title, it says "Wednesday Final Ratings". however, in this case, I see why you would be confused as the ratings was delayed days after the episode had aired, as a result of thanksgiving. So I hope in the future that you edit the ratings which is found on the article titled with the fan ratings. Twotimer17 (talk) 22:19, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Final ratings

For the record, the ratings you added to Criminal Minds (season 10) on November 29 (and two times before that) were not the final ratings as you insisted. Because of the Thanksgiving holiday, the final ratings for last Wednesday's episode were only released today, December 1. Please note that the final ratings are clearly labeled as such on TVBytheNumbers. Davejohnsan (talk) 22:19, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

List of Criminal Minds episodes

It doesn't matter how reliable the sources are; as far as policy is concerned there should not be a section for the upcoming season until an episode table (i.e. Season 11 article) is created. Please stop reverting. Davejohnsan (talk) 00:16, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

@Davejohnsan: Well, I did not know that. I apologize for not having read the policy. I had seen a previously existing section dedicated to the upcoming season, and I simply wanted to help by adding reliable sources of information about the forthcoming season. By the way, you might want to start making that page as the dates for the first 8 episodes of season 11 as well as the writer and director of the premiere have been released by an Executive Producer. I use my access to certain Criminal Minds execs in my continuous effort to help add reliable information about my favorite TV show to Wikipedia. I wish you would have just told me in the first place about the policy. I'd like to remind you that on your talk page is a policy to be polite. I'm offended that you talk to me with an attitude. Please treat me like an equal, not a subordinate. Thank you for informing me, however, and have a nice day. Bef3481 (talk) 02:16, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I thought I was clear the first two times I reverted your edit, but we can agree to disagree on that if you'd like. As long as the confusion has been resolved, I'm happy. As far as how I addressed you, I've gone over my message several times and while I definitely came off more blunt than I usually do, I still don't see how it was rude; I'm sorry that you see it that way, however. When it comes to reverting other users' edits, I pay very little attention to who made it--which means it doesn't matter whether your account is 9 days or 9 years old, I'll revert any edit if I see fit to do so. For what it's worth, if I wanted to treat you like a subordinate, I probably wouldn't have wrote, "Please." :) Davejohnsan (talk) 04:41, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

@Davejohnsan: As a fellow editor, I can understand why you don't pay attention to which user's edits you are reverting, which lends as to why you didn't take the time to explain the policy to me. Obviously, you are not condescending to me, since you took the time and effort to answer me and explain so well. I thank you very much for that. As for why I took umbrage to what I perceived to be your attitude towards me, I was mistaken. I thought the use of the word "please" was just to add to your pretention, but I was wrong. As my favorite show, Criminal Minds, has proven, there are no absolutes when it comes to the human mind, especially its perception. I was mistaken to think that your blunt response was intentionally rude, and for that I do apologize; I simply misinterpreted your intention.

As for the topic of Criminal Minds, Season 11, I definitely think it's time to make the page. I can help if you'd like, or not. We (Me, you and/or other Criminal Minds fans) know the date on which it premieres; we know the amount of episodes; we know the air dates of the first eight episodes; we know the writer and director of the premiere: Breen Frazier and Glenn Kershaw, respectively; we know, just as of recent, that Aisha Tyler will play a recurring character named Dr. Tara Lewis; and, most importantly, we have iron-clad, reliable sources for ALL of this information. I think that is just enough to start a page, don't you? I hope so. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing it made soon, or even to help with the process. Regardless if you agree that I've presented reason enough to start a page for season 11, I am sorry for having responded aggressively, and I'm also happy that we've ended the confusion. You're much nicer than I made you out to be, and for that I am sorry. Please give some thought to what I've proposed, though. Thank you very much, and I appreciate your reply. Bef3481 (talk) 08:28, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate the apology and should probably thank you for tolerating my rough bedside manner. Just for future reference, I will be keeping this conversation in the back of the mind the next time I run into a issue with an edit on a Criminal Minds page. To answer your top concern, if you think you have content to create the Season 11 article, I have no intention of stopping you from making it. I don't feel I am the best qualified to answer what threshold meets the requirements to create the article, but I do see you sound very confident that you have met them. I would almost be inclined to suggest you seek a second opinion on whether you've enough content to make the article, but it goes without saying you're free to do as you please. Davejohnsan (talk) 13:23, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Making the page for Criminal Minds (season 11)

To whatever powers that be, in this matter, as I am fairly new to asking for asking for help and have never created a new page before, greetings! I need some help; I strongly believe I have more than enough material (which can be backed up with reliable references) to create a page for Season 11 of Criminal Minds. I know which actors will be main characters, as well as a new recurring character, I know the premiere date as well as the air dates for the first eight episodes of the season, I know the number of episodes the season will contain and I know both, the writer and the director of the premiere. I believe this is enough material to warrant the need to create this page.

A fellow editor has strongly suggested that I seek permission to make this page. To whomever this message is directed, I was hoping you could give me the permission to create this page, as well as perhaps point me in the direction of another editor who would be willing to assist me in doing so. I am very passionate about my favorite show, Criminal Minds, and I would not be asking to do this if I weren't supremely confident that I have sufficient material and references with which to do so. Would someone be able to point me in the right direction to get started on this? Bef3481 (talk) 06:47, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Bef3481, given that Season 11 doesn't premier for another three months, I highly doubt that you have enough material to make a full article on the subject. Additionally, WP:TVUPCOMING in the Manual of Style states that episode pages should not be created until at least one episode has aired. So please wait until September before creating the page. In the meantime, I hope you find other pages to assist with on Wikipedia! If you want more help, stop by the Teahouse, Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 08:34, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

@Primefac: I realize you've said that no one is to create a page for a season until the first episode has aired, but please hear me out! (or, in this case, read me out) I do not wish to show any disrespect toward anyone here, but I've done some research and as it turns out, the edit history of the Criminal Minds (season 10) page confirms that the page was created on June 29th, 2014, and published (with permission, I assume) by the user TwoTimer17 on July 7th, 2014, ironically almost 3 months before the season premiere on October 1st, 2014. The same policy which you've used to back up your conclusion that I have not enough material to create a page for Season 11 had still existed. I'm wondering, why was that user allowed to make the page before the premiere date, but I'm not? I would like to take this opportunity to present to you everything I have, all with solid, extremely reliable references, which I believe is more than sufficient to create the page. Here it is:

Criminal Minds (season 11)

Criminal Minds was renewed for an eleventh season on May 11, 2015, with an initial order for 22 episodes and is confirmed to premier on September 30, 2015. It has been confirmed by Joe Mantegna, himself, that he will be directing episodes 3 and 17 of the season, the latter of which will be the 250th episode of the series.

It is confirmed that all cast members will be returning for the season, with the exception of Jennifer Love Hewitt, whose character, Kate Callahan, gave Hotch her resignation in the season ten finale. The reason for this mirrored her real life decision to take a year off to spend time with her new baby and family, as she was pregnant and her pregnancy was written into the show. Although JJ announced to Reid that she is pregnant, she will be returning for season 11 as a main cast member, being absent for around only 5 episodes.

Other cast changes have been made, as Aisha Tyler has signed on for a recurring role as Dr. Tara Lewis. Although she will be filling the space left by the departure of Kate Callahan and JJ's temporary absence, it was confirmed in a recent interview by Executive producer Erica Messer that Aisha Tyler is in no way replacing Jennifer Love Hewitt, and that Kate Callahan's space will remain open. Also, Erica Messer has given official confirmation of Paget Brewster returning as Emily Prentiss, also in a recurring capacity. My cast table would look like this:

Cast

Character	Portrayed by	Main cast	Recurring
David Rossi	Joe Mantegna	entire season	—
Derek Morgan	Shemar Moore	entire season	—
Dr. Spencer Reid	Matthew Gray Gubler	entire season	—
Jennifer "JJ" Jareau	A. J. Cook	18 episodes (episodes 6-22)	—
Penelope Garcia	Kirsten Vangsness	entire season	—
Aaron "Hotch" Hotchner	Thomas Gibson	entire season	—
Mateo "Matt" Cruz	Esai Morales	—	—
Dr. Tara Lewis	Aisha Tyler	—	2 episodes
Emily Prentiss	Paget Brewster	—	—

My episode table would look like this:

Episodes

No. in series	No. in season	Title	Directed by	Written by	Original air date	Production code	U.S. viewers (millions)
234	1	"The Job"	Glenn Kershaw	Breen Frazier	September 30, 2015 (2015-09-30)	1101	N/A
235	2	"The Witness"	John Terlesky	Sharon Lee Watson	October 7, 2015 (2015-10-07)	1102	N/A
236	3	"'Til Death Do Us Part"	Joe Mantegna	Karen Maser	October 14, 2015 (2015-10-14)	1103	N/A
237	4	"Outlaw"	Larry Teng	Virgil Williams	October 21, 2015 (2015-10-21)	1104	N/A
238	5	TBA	Unknown	Unknown	October 28, 2015 (2015-10-28)	1105	N/A
239	6	TBA	Unknown	Unknown	November 4, 2015 (2015-11-04)	1106	N/A
240	7	TBA	Unknown	Jim Clemente	November 11, 2015 (2015-11-11)	1107	N/A
241	8	TBA	Unknown	Unknown	November 18, 2015 (2015-11-18)	1108	N/A

Now, I certainly hope that would be sufficient. I'm guessing that would be a great episode table, assuming I'm permitted to make the page. What I'm trying to say is that if Twotimer17 can be allowed to make a season/ episode page 3 months before the air date than so should I. Nobody should be above the rules, and we should all be, in the context of following policy, treated equally! No disrespect intended. If you still don't want me to make the page for Season 11 yet, then I understand and I'll look forward to posting this info/references at 10:01 pm on September 30th, 2015. Thank you for reading. Bef3481 (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

References

Hello. After reading the policy and your proposed table of episodes, I have to say I consider this case to be borderline. The table is not really very detailed (airing dates but no titles or other info for most episodes). I strongly recommend you add some information about the upcoming season to the main article on Criminal Minds, but not create a new season article yet. You could also start drafting an article in your sandbox for September. As I said, this particular case is borderline and might very well not get deleted, but it would certainly get nominated for deletion. You probably don't need the drama, so please wait until September. That being said, this is only my opinion and I have no power to stop you.

On the subject of haphazard application of rules, yes things can be a little strange. First of all, the rules change as consensus does. Secondly, exceptions are frequently made by local consensus. Thirdly, not every article gets the attention it deserves and junk frequently slips through. Some of us at wp:NPP work on this, but we don't catch everything and often the results are very inconsistent. Happy Squirrel (talk) 00:14, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

@Happysquirrel: Thank you so much for your respectful, unbiased opinion. I quite appreciate the fact that you were able to understand the ambiguity and inconsistency regarding the WP:TVUPANDCOMING policy, and that anoter user was exempt from it but not me. I can tell you have done your absolute best to help me and point me in the right direction. I did not even know there was a sandbox, and I'd love to know how I can use it to build an eventual page for Criminal Minds (season 11), as I'd love to continue collecting information and adding it to my episode table, so that when I would be able to create the official page, it would be well informed. If you could teach me how to take the table I've created and add to it in the capacity of my sandbox, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time. Bef3481 (talk) 03:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Your sandbox is at User:Bef3481/sandbox, but I see you have found it. If you want help with formatting etc, just leave me a message. Happy editing! Happy Squirrel (talk) 13:11, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Help! I want to save the pages of my favorite show!

I would really like for a Wikipedia administrator to read this: As of 1:27pm on August 12th, 2015 I reverted disruptive edits on all 11 Criminal Minds episode pages. There are two editors who are disruptively trying to change the format, Twotimer17 and Drovethrughosts, the latter does not even list Criminal Minds as a favorite show, but strongly believes that the cast tables (which are needed for a long-lasting show like Criminal Minds to prevent confusion and ambiguity) are "cumbersome", "unnecessary" and "incorrect". These statements have not been based on fact, only opinion. The former, Twotimer17, has repeatedly tried to undermine my editing; I altered the margins of the episode table so that the width % numbers add up to 98%, and so that the writers' and directors' names are easily readable, organized, and not squeezed so tightly that only one word will fit on a line, and so that when the "List of Criminal Minds episodes" page reaches more than 99 refrences, the viewers(millions) category does not have to occupy more than one line. This coincides with the way these pages have been built for years.

I don't know why suddenly Drovethrughosts feels the urgent need to change the cast table (which, contrary to his opinion, lays out the information in an organized manner) or why Twotimer17 feels the need to immediately change my edits, which have made the table margins in synchronicity with many other Wikipedia episode pages of long lasting shows such as CSI, CSI:Cyber, or Person of Interest, but I am asking the administration, for the good of Criminal Minds fans everywhere, can the cast table please not be deleted and the margins of the episode table be left alone? The way they are as of 1:27pm on August 12th, 2015 is the most efficient way to present the information, as it resembles most closely the way which has worked for so long. Why fix what isn't broken? Thank you so much; please protect those pages and point me in the right direction! Greatly appreciated, Bef3481 Bef3481 (talk) 17:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The edits by Twotimer17 and Drovethrughosts were not disruptive. The television manual of style specifies prose for cast lists:

Information about the cast and characters should be presented in one of two ways:

• Cast list: In a section labeled "Cast list" or "Cast and characters", we indicate the name of the cast member, followed his or her noteworthy role(s).

Harrison Ford as Han Solo: The pilot of the Millennium Falcon

• Characters list: In a section labeled "List of characters", we indicate noteworthy characters, including the name of the portrayer, followed by a brief description of the character.

Han Solo (portrayed by Harrison Ford): The pilot of the Millennium Falcon

Use of tables to present cast information is a relatively new phenomena and in discussions on article talk pages, at MOS:TV and at Wikiproject Television, use of cast tables has received little to no support. There is some support for them in character list articles (see List of The Big Bang Theory characters#Character appearance summary for example) but in main series and season articles, use of prose is always preferable to tables. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:13, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

AussieLegend If the tables are a relatively new phenomena, then why were they the way the season 8, 9 and 10 (and, initially, 11) pages were created? Why "correct" them now? After all this time? The tables existed for a very long time, and then you felt the overwhelming need to delete them in accordance with this very general logic? it just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, they are preferable, but I believe they have presented the information in the best possible way, since they have been around since at least 2012. I am not going to back down on this, there must be a higher authority who can assess this situation. The fact that Drovethrughosts was the first one to start this fiasco, and did not provide an explanation in his original edit, and although I've tried to restore it many times, it keeps being reverted. That is nothing less than disruptive editing. This show is not like others, those tables are necessary because of the many cast changes and recurring characters. Please let the pages be. Or let's take this to a higher authority and decide what to do.

Bef3481 Please stop taking control over the Criminal Minds (season 11) page, as you have in the past couple of days. My edits are not disruptive, like the measurement of width to the episode section, as I only helped make the List of Criminal Minds episodes better with adding the same width for every season so it was more readable. The width you have provided gave 108%, not 98%, in addition that at least for me on a MacBook Air, the episode sections for each season became over three lines instead of two. Therefore, I have edited the width as your width was too high. I understand the issue with the production codes, and I am sorry for that. I believed they were unnecessary as most episodes was aired in chronological order except for a few episodes, and clearly I was wrong to have deleted them. But as a matter of reverting every single edit that occur on the Season 11 page just because you think what you think is right. As an example, the list of characters should be a list instead of a table. When someone edits the page, don't take offense and revert their edits jut because it goes against what you think is right. Instead, you can discuss it in the season discussion page.

You should rather listen to what we have to say instead of reverting our edits and don't allow anyone else to edit the page. I created the page just like I created the Season 10 page. I appreciate that you were delighted that someone had created the page, but the constant reverting of users only trying to edit the page to make it better, needs to stop. I can see you often calls Criminal Minds your favorite show, and then you bash people who don't like the show and makes them seem like users who will only disrupt the page because they don't have Criminal Minds as their favorite show which makes them more likely to not even like the show. Therefore, I ask you to be more understanding towards other users, and not be so offended when people edit the page who only wants to help. Twotimer17 (talk) 18:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

All of you should discuss those issues on some talk page, not just via edit summaries. How about the Talk:Criminal Minds as a centralized location, with short notes linking to that discussion from the individual season articles's talk pages? If others disagree with your changes (having a table instead of a list of bullet points ultimately is just opinion, too, and bullet points are the style used on TV series such as Dallas, Star Trek: TNG or CSI, so it's hardly uncommon), the way ahead is to discuss the issues and to establish a consensus, if necessary by inviting wider community input, say via a request at WT:WikiProject Television.

Regarding the percentages, Twotimer17 is right; your percentages don't add up to 98% but to 108% (5% + 5% + 22% + 20% + 25% + 14% + 8% + 9%); it appears you missed the "No. in season" and "No. in series" columns. Since TwoTimer17 explicitly mentioned the width issue in his edit summaries, that too is something that could easily have been clarified by asking on the talk page instead of reverting back and forth.

As an aside, whether Criminal Minds is Drovethrughosts' favourite show is irrelevant. Even people who hate that show with every fiber of their guts can still discuss how the Wikipedia article should be formatted. I see no indication that your colleagues don't mean to improve the article even though their ideas of improvement differ from yours. Huon (talk) 18:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Criminal Minds (season 8) was created by an anonymous editor who probably didn't bother reading MOS:TV before creating the article. These tables crept into articles relatively slowly, and it was a while before their use was noticed as being a problem. Why "correct" them now? - Because we correct errors when we can. I've found eight year old errors in articles that nobody has noticed. A short while ago I found an inappropriate source in one of our good articles that had been unnoticed since 2013. We simply don't have the resources to fix everything straight away. There is no "higher authority" than the Wikipedia community. We use community consensus to decide on the way forward. Opening a discussion about the use of tables at WT:TV would be the best option at this point, since it's an issue that affects many articles. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Twotimer17 ::AussieLegend You make a very good point. I must apologize, because my intention was not to take control of the page; believe me, I have much better things to do. But the last thing I want to do is turn anyone away from Criminal Minds as a result of my actions. And whether people are willing to devote time to shows they don't like, that is not any of my business. You are correct in that. I acted the way I did in the past couple of days because I got the impression that even though we are both trying to improve the page, that other people felt that their opinion of what they deemed as an improvement was more important than my opinion on the same subject. I'm glad you are all open to discussion. I am a very compromising, friendly person face-to-face, but I'm not that well-versed in communicating over the internet, I still assume everyone is a keyboard warrior (someone who suddenly thinks they can act tough/superior once they are behind the mask of a computer) but I'm starting to see I am very wrong. Thank you for respectfully bringing this to my attention, not just you, but AussieLegend as well. I apologize greatly if I've offended anyone, as that was not my intention. I'm willing to compromise. As for our width issue, you are very right; my math was off. I've now put together what I believe to be ideal for making enough room for dates, writers, titles, and directors. The other three sections are fine the way you've kept them. I hope you're willing to agree with me on the way I've currectly arranged the width. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me about this, and in a civilized manner no less. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bef3481 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 12 August 2015‎ Bef3481 (UTC)

August 2015

Your recent editing history at Criminal Minds (season 10) shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. AussieLegend (✉) 21:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I took this edit to be a good faith acknowledgement but am disappointed to see, only 22 minutes later, another reversion at the article. To date you've made 4 reversions,[1][2][3][4] 3 of those being in a little over 2 hours. One more and you will have violated the three-revert rule. I also note that you've made reversions at each of the other season articles, which is most inappropriate given the circumstances and the opportunity to discuss the matter, which you have not tried to do. --AussieLegend (✉) 21:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: AussieLegend I must say, that's a bit harsh considering the lengthy apology I just wrote to you and Twotimer17. I've admitted that my actions were wrong, and that my intentions were not discernable, and appeared malicious; however, that was not the case. I can assure you that I will do my best do compromise with other editors on subjects related to that at hand, and I can assure you that I've taken to heart what you've said, and quite seriously. Thank you for your concern. Too bad I didn't post this earlier; what you consider purposeful delay, I consider helping my mother hang pictures because I cannot spend every second on the internet. But again, thank you for having initially treated me with respect. Bef3481 (talk) 21:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

You made an apology and then went on to revert at every article. Your "apology" therefore seems disingenuous at best. Edit-warring is not compromise, you need to discuss as suggested by Huon. --AussieLegend (✉) 21:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

AussieLegend I don't give apologies if I'm not genuinely apologetic for my actions. I don't have that kind of time to waste, and I'm not that type of person. I "reverted" other pages not to change those ever-powerful omniscient character lists, but because Twotimer17 said to me that my edits needed to align with the other seasons. It was not an attempt to undermine your authority. I appreciate Wikipedia and all of its users. Thank you for better informing me as well. I apologize for my actions having offended anyone. It won't happen again, as I love this site and my only intention is to better inform the fans of the show I love, Criminal Minds, and, eventually, Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders. Bef3481 (talk) 21:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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